One clue leads to another… Update

The update is at the end of the post…

After Jeffrey commented on the Campbells, Don Daniel added this:

Hello to my Lagace/ Lagasse relatives. My research leads me to suspect but not prove that my 3rd great-grandfather may have been Daniel McKinnon, probably a member of the 78th Fraser Highlanders who occupied Quebec City and the surrounding area from 1760 to December 1763. Together with Marguerite Euphrosine Hamelin dit Pagnol, he may have fathered a child born on 9 September 1762 in Grondines. The evidence is merely circumstancial, but Jeffrey’s post adds to it. He was probably around 37 at the time. If he is the father, he abandoned his child and her mother and eventual settled in Berthier-sur-Mer where he married (presumably for the first time) in 1768. With his wife, Marie Angelique Rinfret-Malouin, he fathered another 17+ children and died in 1802.

Don Daniel

As always I got curious which led me to find this on the Internet.

About Daniel Macanneville OR McKinnon

Don Daniel

Marguerite Euphrosine and Daniel never married. He is not the father of ME as listed above. If Daniel Macaneville is Daniel McKinnon, then he did marry, in 1768, Marie Angelique Rinfret dit Malouin. Is it possible that this mystery man is Daniel McKinnon? Here are my hypotheses, guesses, and “hard” (?) facts. Let me list some not necessarily in the most logical order.

Pierre Daniel Macanneville is my 2nd g-gf. His marriage contract of 13 Jan 1798 identifies him as illegitimate, but marginalia identifies “Daniel Macanneville” and Marguerite Eurphrosine Hamelin dit Pagnol as his unwedded parents. There is no record of any such Macanneville (variously spelled phonetically) in any other Canadian records or UK records that I have scoured. I believe the way the name was spelled reflected the way it sounded to the notary writing the document. The “Mac” part of his name suggests a person of Gaelic/ Celtic/ Scottish/ Irish origin consistent with the majority of my DNA. (We refer to him as “Alleycat”: he came, he saw, he seduced, he left.) More on this below. Marguerite Euphrosine is well-documented. Born 1745. Died 1820. Resident of Grondines, located along the St. Lawrence just SW of Quebec City. No record indicates she ever married. No baptismal certificate lists her as a mother. But an illegitimate child born 9 Sep 1762 in Grondines and baptized “Pierre” has a Charlotte Hamelin as godmother. No mention of mother but I am assuming that this Marguerite’s and Alleycat’s son. She never married. Another link between Marguerite and Pierre Daniel Macanneville, the groom in 1798, is that the marriage needed a dispensation for “third degree of consanguinity.” This meant that people knew Pierre’s provenance. Pierre married Rose Chavigny. Her grandmother Genevieve Chavigny married Joseph-Marie Hamelin dit Pagnol. So, if Pierre is the son of Marguerite Hamelin and marrying a Chavigny, then a dispensation would be needed in view of the earlier Genevieve Chavigny-Joseph Hamelin marriage. This nails down for me that he is the son of Marguerite. As for Alleycat’s paternity, if he was in the 78th Fraser Highlanders —the rolls list Donald McKinnon—he could be the father. The 78th was garrisoned in and around Quebec at the time. If he was born in 1725, he would have been around 37 yrs old when Pierre was born. I cannot believe that he was celibate all that time. If he is the one who married Angelique Rinfret in 1768, then he would be 53. For him to father 17 (as per my records) or 20 kids (as per yours) with her boggles my mind. Records concerning both Pierre Daniel Macanneville and Daniel McKinnon reveal a near score of “aliases”: McKinville, McKinval, McBonneville, McBanvil, McKendit, Kinnine, Kinnal, and others including phonetic variants. Even Daniel McKinnon’s burial certificate refers to “Daniel M. Kinnon” and “Daniel M. Kinnan.” Pierre’s daughters used different variants within their lifetime and his burial certificate uses McBanvil.

In Diane Perron-Latour’s family tree in Geneanet, she says of Daniel Macaneville:

“Il est possiblement Sieur Daniel McKinal qui a épousé Marie Angélique [Rinfret-] Malouin.” She may be right. In several sites, variants of McKinnon include Maccan, Macannan, Macannon, Mckinal, Mahinal, McKinlay, McKenne, and the like–all close variants that drop the “vil” or “ville” extension. Also, see following from NOSORIGINES: Prénom: Daniel Nom: McKinnon Sexe: M Occupation: Naissance: 1725 Paroisse/ville: Pays: Écosse Décès: 22 février 1802 – âge: 77 Paroisse/ville: Berthier, Montmagny Pays: Canada Information, autres enfants, notes, etc. Le premier seigneur en 1781 de Matane était Donald McKinnon qui arrive en 1759 avec Wolfe. Il est négociant et soldat et il marie le 22 avril 1765 à Montréal Françoise Tanon. On trouve sa sépulture le 9 août 1792 à Rimouski. Il n’ont pas d’enfant. Dans un testament devant le notaire Pinguet le 29 mai 1780 il nomme comme héritier son neuveu Donald McKinnon. Ce Donald n’est pas identique avec Daniel, époux de Angélique Rinfret-Malouin. Daniel McKinnon ne vient jamais à Matane. Il demeurait à Berthier ou il excerce le métier d’aubergiste cabaretier. Il meurt en 1802 à Berthier et il a 77 ans. Gérard Caron avance comme naissance le 7 novembre 1725, Gorvan, Lanark, Écosse. Nous n’avons pas de preuve pour cela. Il est l’ancêtre de toutes les familles McKinnon de Matane (Source: Les vieilles familles de Matane: Famille McKinnon)

Family Search L8PY-M5W refers to him as Sieur, but is wrong. The sieur is Donald, sieur de Matane. And adds: Christening 07 NOV 1725 Govan,Lanark,Scotland It also lists parents Hugh McKinnon and Margeret Mclain w/ no indication of marriage and no further info about them.

He was 43 yrs old when he married. He was a soldier with Wolfe in 1759 in the Quebec area, If Pierre was indeed born in Sep 1762, then DM could have been the father. He is probably associated with the 78th Fraser Highlanders who occupied Quebec at the time. The rations list for the 78th at the time of disbandment lists several Donald McKinnons. Acc to (Re‐printed from Tasmanian Ancestry, Vol. 8, No. 3 , December 1997) INTERCHANGEABLE SURNAMES AND PERSONAL NAMES IN SCOTTISH HIGHLAND REGISTERS AND THE PROBLEM OF IDENTIFICATION by Alan G. Macpherson, it was common to substitute Donald and Daniel and one website refers to “Donald–Daniel McKinnon.” And there are several Donald and Daniel McKinnon floating about at that time.

Acc. to

http://www.gaspejohnpaterson.ca/pages/78regiment.pdf: 1761

passed uneventfully with companies spread out from Levis along the south shore of the St. Lawrence as far as Riviere-du-Loup.

Don told me he was the author and asked for my help. I told him he seems to be the expert, but I could take a quick look. That was before he added…

It would be wonderful if you can move this beyond supposition and into proven fact. (PS: My mother was Marie Adeline Yvette Amabellisse Lagace.)

Don and I are distant cousins!

Now the update!

This is a comment left by a reader:

Donald and Daniel McKinnon are two different persons. Donald died in 1791 in Matane. His wife was Françoise Tanon, who died in 1790. They had no children. Daniel married Angélique Rinfret (dit Malouin) and died in 1802. He never came to Matane. However, Daniel is the ancestor of the McKinnons from Matane. His grandchildren moved to Matane, with no link to the sieur Donald McKinnon. Many sources confound them for this reason; linking the Matane MacKinnon to sieur Donald, while they actually descend from Daniel. I’ve seen some sources citing Angélique Rinfret dying in Matane in 1790. This is not true, her death act can be found easily on websites such as ancestry.ca. She died in Berthier in 1811. Françoise Tanon died in 1790 in Matane. These two persons are definitely different.

Also this was added:

Daniel McKinnon is often referred to as « Daniel McKinal » in the French documents.

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A strange photograph (1)

A ghost story from my friend John…

John Knifton

One very strange happening happened to my Dad, Fred, and myself  when, in 1970, I accompanied my father down to his parents’ house at number 39, Hartshorne Road. Both his father, Will, and then his mother, Fanny, had recently died, within a few months of each other, both in hospital at Burton-on-Trent, with Fanny unaware of Will’s demise.

Fred was paying regular visits to the property, presumably attempting little by little to clear the house out so that it could be resold. At the time, as a teenager, I was unaware of this, although, with the benefit of hindsight, I wish I had been, and I could perhaps have stopped him from throwing away so many of Will’s Great War souvenirs such as his Canadian Army uniform, his German soldier’s belt and his collection of old German guns and ammunition. Here’s the front of a very average semi-detached house. The only…

View original post 413 more words

The Proof of the Pudding – Update

https://www.npr.org/2012/08/24/159975466/corrections-and-comments-to-stories

Link sent by Alyce…

Aly1

Excerpt

In a commentary this week on Morning Edition, Frank Deford said the “proof is in the pudding.” A listener wrote in to say that keeping proof in a pudding would be messy. The original proverb is: The proof of the pudding is in the eating. And what it meant was that you had to try out food to know whether it was good.

The proof is the pudding

I always thought that the expression “The proof of the pudding” was “The proof is in the pudding”. I always thought also that André Mignier’s dit name was la gâchette. That was what was found everywhere until Gilles Tremblay, a researcher, started to questioned this. In fact no documents that I could find had la gâchette as a dit name. Everything I found was either l’agacé or l’agassé.

Peter Lagasse just sent me this to translate…

It’s Marie Mignier’s baptism. Hard to read but it cleary shows the dit name la Gacée.

Le quatorzième jour du mois d’octobre de l’an mil six cent soixante et onze par moi Henry de Bernières prêtre curé de cette paroisse a été baptisée Marie fille d’André Mignier dit la Gacée et de Jacquette Michel sa femme, née du jour d’hyer (hier) le parrain a été Siméon Le Roy dit Ody (Audy) la marraine Marie Renaud femme de Charles Petit.

On the fourteenth day of October of the year one thousand six hundred and seventy-one by me Henry de Bernières priest of this parish was baptized Marie daughter of André Mignier dit la Gacée and Jacquette Michel his wife, born on the day of yesterday the godfather was Siméon Le Roy dit Ody (Audy) the godmother Marie Renaud wife of Charles Petit.

Now if someone could prove me wrong and show me an image of André and Jacquette’s marriage contract written by notaire Romain Becquet… For more on André Mignier dit l’agacé this is the link to Gilles Tremblay’s research…

http://www.migrations.fr/ANCETRESJO/mignier_lagace.htm

Marcelline David is perhaps your ancestor… – Update

Got this comment from Denise on a post written in 2009!

Perhaps you can help? Trying to trace my paternal grandfather’s parents and grandparents. He was Aurelius Joseph Lagasse, born 1896 or so in Canada. Anything about the children of: Adolphe, Henri, Joseph, Idola, Damase, or Ambroise? Merci beaucoup!


The post I wrote:

Marcelline David was Pierre Lagacé’s wife. She was also Adolphe Lagasse’s mother.

She also had these children:

Joseph

Henri

Marie-Anne Émilie

Damase

Joséphine

Adélia

Clara

Marie

Idola

Ambroise

Click on the image for a larger view

She is certainly the ancestor of many Lagasses living in the U.S. One of them is Alyce LaGasse. I know that Ambroise Lagasse also went to the States and lived there.

I will post an article on him one day.

While searching for Lagasses, I found this…

This is Marcelline David’s death certificate on the Mormons’ site.

Click on the image it will appear in another window

It says Davies… but it is David.You can trust me on that. She died of a heart disease. Her son Adolph Lagasse was the undertaker. Her father was Hubert David and her mother was Josephte Séguin. Hubert David married Josephte Séguin in 1815. That’s quite a way back.

Tomorrow… Why is this crazy canuck doing all this…?


To be continued 9 years later…

Intermission – Classroom Roots

https://vita-brevis.org/2018/07/classroom-roots/

 

Excerpt

A time of major transition – I just retired from teaching after a wonderful run of thirty-five years. No one who knows me well asks: What will you do [more of] next? While genealogy, per se, was not part of the prescribed English and history curriculum, that quest always played in the background and sometimes assumed center stage. Particularly in the teaching of American history, it became the hook which anchored students to a personalized past.

To be continued?

I often end a search like this…

To be continued?

Sometimes I won’t follow up on a search. It all depends on how people will react to a blogger who has been writing about our ancestors, yours and mine, since 2009.

It can be scary sometimes especially when I post images like these…

That’s my sense of humor (humour if you live in Canada like I do…) that I inherited from this man… my paternal grandfather who never spoke to me even once if I can recall correctly.

My quest for my ancestors which started in July 2007 led me to find distant cousins in the United States finding my blog, and who were generous by sharing pictures of my distant relatives…

More than a few thousands pictures!

There are all in here on this blog with a few images taken from parish records like these two about Jean-Baptiste Meunier dit Lagafsé and Vitaline L’heureux…

To be continued?

Easy as Pie

Easy as pie when you have the original images…

 

Instead of these…

Jean-Baptiste Meunier dit Lagassé married Vitaline L’Heureux in Ste-Rosalie on 25 January, 1869. Jean-Baptiste Meunier dit Lagassé is a descendant of André Mignier dit l’Agacé.

Sometimes Mignier became Meunier in parish records so this might be confusing for someone looking for his or her roots.

What does the parish record says?

Ce vingt-cinq Janvier mil huit cent soixante et neuf vu la publication d’un seul ban de mariage faite aux prônes des messes paroissiales de St-Hyacinthe le Confesseur et de Ste-Rosalie et la dispense des deux autres accordée par Monseigneur de St-Hyacinthe entre Jean-Baptiste Meunier dit Lagafsé [Lagassé] domicilié à St-Hyacinthe le Confesseur fils majeur de Jean Meunier dit Lagafsé et de Delphine Brodeur de St-Hyacinthe le Confesseur d’une part, et Vitaline Lheureux domiciliée en cette paroisse fille mineure de Joseph Lheureux cultivateur et de Céleste Gauthier de cette paroisse d’autre part et vu enfin qu’il n’a été découvert aucun empêchement au dit mariage, nous soufsigné [soussigné] vicaire de cette paroifse [paroisse] avons de l’agrément des parents de la partie mineure reçu leur mutuel consentement de mariage et leur avons donné la bénédiction nuptiale suivant les règles prescrites par la Sainte Église en présence de Joseph Lheureux cultivateur père de l’épouse qui n’a su signer de Jean-Baptiste Meunier dit Lagassé cultivateur père de l’époux qui n’a su signer de Joseph Gauthier cultivateur oncle de l’épouse qui n’a su signer et de Pierre Poulin cultivateur oncle de l’épouse qui n’a su signer. L’époux n’a su signer, l’épouse a signé quelques autres ont signé Julie Lheureux qui a signé Elmire Lheureux soussignée soeur de l’épouse.

Vitaline L’heureux
Edmire L’heureux
Julie L’heureux

Even though you could read French it could be hard to read since there are no commas.

Now a draft translation…

On this twenty-fifth (25) of January one thousand eight hundred and sixty nine (1869) with the publication of a single wedding ban made during the sermons of the masses at St-Hyacinthe le Confesseur and at Ste-Rosalie and the exemption of two other bans granted by Monseigneur of St-Hyacinthe between Jean-Baptiste Meunier dit Lagafsé[Lagassé] resident of St-Hyacinthe le Confesseur, adult son of Jean Meunier dit Lagafsé and Delphine Brodeur of St-Hyacinthe le Confesseur on the one hand, and Vitaline Lheureux resident in this parish minor daughter of Joseph Lheureux farmer and Celeste Gauthier of this parish on the other hand and finally that it was discovered no impediment to the said marriage, we undersigned vicar of this parish have the approval of the parents of the minor party received their mutual consent of marriage and have given them the nuptial blessing according to the rules prescribed by the Holy Church in the presence of Joseph Lheureux farmer father of the bride who could not sign of John-Baptiste Meunier dit Lagassé farmer father of the groom who could not sign Joseph Gauthier farmer uncle of the bride who could not sign and Pierre Poulin farmer uncle of the bride who could not sign. The groom could not sign, the bride signed and a few others signed Julie Lheureux who signed Elmire Lheureux the bride’s sister who undersigned.

Vitaline L’heureux
Edmire L’heureux

Julie L’heureux

To be continued…?