Napoléon Dubé’s daughter or granddaughter?

Annick asked me if I could find out who’s the little girl.

If finding out who were these people was kind of easy…
Pamela Dubé

This one is not that easy.

Napoléon Dubé

I am almost sure the girl is Catherine, Napoléon Dubé’s daughter, but she could be also any one of his granddaughters.

She could be one of the daughters of Aurelia, Laura, or Lillian who were Napoléon’s daughters from his first marriage? Or she could be the daughter of his son Arthur? Or she could be one of Catherine Dubé’s daughters, Dorothy or Lillian Silvernail…

I guess we will never find out unless someone shares more family pictures to compare them with this one.

While we are waiting, we can look at this 1910 picture and figure out who were all these people.

temps des sucres 1910

And later write about these new photos…

Advertisements

What was a Hessian? – Update

See the comment at the end of this post.


Am I digging to deep when looking for ancestors?

This slideshow requires JavaScript.

When you find one of your ancestors, or someone’s ancestor, you want to find more about him.

Click here.

Hessian

This period image shows Hessian soldiers as heartless warriors.

Was Chrétien Lemaire a Hessian?

Was Chrétien Lemaire a heartless warrior?

Read on…

Every school child in America has heard the term “Hessian” in the context of Washington having crossed the Delaware to attack them on Christmas night in 1776. Few people know anything about them, or, if they do, they have a rather “cartoonish” image. In some circles the term has become synonymous with “soldier of fortune,” perhaps because, even in the 18th Century, they were referred to as “mercenaries”.

We must begin by noting that our current concept of a unified, German nation (in no way to be confused with the more recent fall of the Berlin Wall), is a product of the 1870’s. The Germany of the 18th Century was what was left of the old “Holy Roman Empire” of the Middle Ages. It was a somewhat bewildering collection of separate, and autonomous, city-states, duchies, and principalities as large and important as Prussia, and as small and nearly forgotten as Anhalt-Zerbst.

When trying to understand their role in the American Revolution, it is important to recognize that one of these principalities was Hanover, which was governed by it’s “Elector”. That “Elector” happened to be George III of Great Britain (hence the current ruling family of Britain is still, technically known as the “House of Hanover”). Great Britain traditionally relied on its impressive, defensive “moat” — the English Channel, and always maintained a relatively small army in peacetime. These German city-states, being a part of Continental Europe with few natural boundaries, of necessity, had to maintain comparatively large, standing armies for their own safety. Many regarded Great Britain as a natural ally and fought alongside her as such during the Seven Years’ War and earlier conflicts.

Hessian troops

Rich Buser
Hessian reenactors show their drilling style at a Park event.

 

Being a Constitutional Monarchy, Britain was one of the more liberal governments on Earth. The economy was generally in good shape, so labor was almost always at a premium. Consequently, Britain always found it difficult to raise many new regiments for its army during times of war. Those new men it did recruit (or impress), needed to be trained. The new regiments needed to be exercised with others to become militarily viable. The German princes would often see Britain’s military needs as opportunities to, at the same time:

  • assist an ally
  • provide combat experience for their officer corps
  • keep a portion of their own regiments embodied while someone else was paying for their upkeep.

The soldiers were themselves only mercenaries in the sense that they were paid for their service to their own ruler, just as any member of the U.S. Military is today. A “soldier of fortune” would be someone who acted, on his own, in a sense as a “free agent”, contracting his services to whoever would pay him. In all, George III was able to contract with six of his fellow German princes for the use of some of their troops:

  • Hesse-Cassel
  • Brunswick
  • Hesse Hanau
  • Anspach-Bayreuth
  • Waldeck
  • Anhalt-Zerbst
  • Friedrich, Landgraff of Hesse-Cassel, by far, contributed the most men, so today, as then, we tend to refer to them all as “Hessians” for convenience. This is technically incorrect, but has become a kind of convention to ease understanding. All three of the regiments who occupied Trenton, in December of 1776, along with the detachments of artillery and jaegers (or riflemen), were, in fact from Hesse-Cassel, thus, truly Hessians. They were:
  • The Grenadier Regiment Rall
  • The Fusilier Regiment von Knyphausen
  • The Fusilier Regiment von Lossberg

All of these regiments were under the command of Col. Johann Gottlieb Rall. As grenadiers and fusiliers, they considered themselves elite units and thus, all the enlisted men wore a form of the well known, tall brass miter cap.

These units had already served with valor at the Battle of Long Island, the Battle of White Plains, and the taking of Ft. Washington in the several months prior to their occupation of Trenton.

stop

Chrétien Lemaire was with the Hesse Hanau Chasseur Corps. That I am sure of.

Did Chrétien Lemaire fight in the U.S. against the Patriots?

Chrétien Lemaire

Chrétien was with Creuzbourg’s Jäger Corps.

Creuzbourg’s Jäger Corps (Jäger-Corps von Creuzbourg) was an independent Jäger battalion raised by the county of Hesse-Hanau and put to the disposition of the British Crown, as part of the German Allied contingent during the American Revolutionary War. The corps fought at the Battle of Oriskany, although mostly serving as garrison of different Canadian posts. (Wikipedia)

Maybe he fought in one battle.

The Battle of Oriskany, fought on August 6, 1777, was one of the bloodiest battles in the North American theater of the American Revolutionary War and a significant engagement of the Saratoga campaign. Early in the siege of Fort Stanwix, an American relief force from the Mohawk Valley under General Nicholas Herkimer, numbering around 800 men of the Tryon County militia and a party of Oneida Indians, approached in an attempt to raise the siege. British commander Barry St. Leger authorized an intercept force consisting of a Hanau Jäger (light infantry) detachment, Sir John Johnson‘s King’s Royal Regiment of New York, Indian allies from the Six Nations and other tribes to the north and west, and Indian Department Rangers totaling at least 450 men.

The Loyalist and Indian force ambushed Herkimer’s force in a small valley about six miles (10 km) east of Fort Stanwix, near the present-day village of Oriskany, New York. During the battle, Herkimer was mortally wounded. The battle cost the Patriots approximately 450 casualties, while the Loyalists and Indians lost approximately 150 dead and wounded. The result of the battle remains ambiguous to this day because the advantage of the Loyalist victory was countered when a party sortied from Fort Stanwix and sacked their camp, spoiling morale among the Indians.

This was one the few battles in the war where almost all of the participants were North American: Loyalists and Indians fought against Patriots in the absence of British soldiers. For the Iroquois nations, the battle marked the beginning of a civil war, as Oneidas under Colonel Louis and Han Yerry allied with the American cause and fought against members of other Iroquois nations. (Wikipedia)

For what I was able to find out, most of the Hesse Hanau soldiers stayed in Canada from 1777 to 1783. I guess we will never be certain Chrétien Lemaire fought at the Battle of Oriskany.

For more information on Germans in the American Revolution, you can click here.

Infanterie_Regiment_von_Donop_-_officer_and_private_1783

– Chrétien what will you do after your discharge?
– I am going to stay here, get married to a lovely fraulein, and raise a family.

UPDATE

Comment made about this post.

Pierre was right except that he forgot to mention the Anspach-Bayreuth troops that were part of that 30,000 soldiers…some two thousand of them. They fought well at Newport and Elizabethtown, NJ and were captured at Yorktown along with their flags. They were imprisoned at Frederick, MD until 1783 when they were “freed” to go back to Germany. My ancestor, George Christhilf did not. A musician, he not only played for his militia unit, but also Gen. Washington at the City Tavern in 1787, and the patrons of the city’s events and in 1792 with Phile and Roth, etc. at Harrowgate. He died in the Yellow Fever epidemic of 1793 with a couple of his children, but his surviving son, Heinrich, came to Baltimore and fought against the British in 1814. You can read about George on academia.edu. Thank you, Nick

More reading

http://teachingamericanhistory.org/convention/citytavern/

Excerpt

Nick Christhilf, family genealogist, informs me that his “G4 grandfather,” George Christhilf, served during the Revolutionary War as a German auxiliary fighting for the British in 1777 while in his early twenties. He was captured, released, and rather than return to Germany, he defected to the United States, and subsequently joined the Philadelphia County Militia in 1784. He lived in the German area between Vine and Race Streets in Philadelphia where he befriended Trenier, Shultz, and Spangenberg, all named in the list of musicians providing entertainment for Washington in 1787. He died in the 1793 Philadelphia yellow fever epidemic.

 

Who is the little girl?

I am now certain the caption written with a ball-point pen under this photo is wrong.

Pamela Dubé is there with her husband Napoléon Dubé and a young girl….
Pamela is also seen on these two pictures.


The first caption is right. But both captions on the photos taken in Bristol are wrong. Julie Anna Dubé, Pamela’s sister, and Évariste Dubé never lived there!
Which brings us to this question…
Who is the little girl who looks to be two years-old at the most?

She’s not Délima because Napoléon and Pamela never had a girl named Délima.

My guess is that she is Antoinette Dubé born in 1903 and who died on January 31st 1911.
closer look
I am sure you remember how this story started back in 2012…

Pamela Dubé 1863-1946

And how it’s ending…
Pamela Dubé

Intermission – Every picture tells a story…

This post has been in the works since last February when Julie contacted me.

Every picture tells a story on Our Ancestors.

That’s the reason I get so excited with old pictures especially when I see people whom I don’t know and Dennis shared lots of those yesterday.

This one was not in the lot…

1947 family reunion

I think my 23andMe cousin Alyce sent me that picture a few years back.

I had figured it was a family reunion. At first I had thought it had been taken when these people got together when her Alyce’s grandfather Idala Lagasse died in 1947, but people are smiling so I had figured it was not about a funeral.
The man seen sitting is Eugene Moreau. His wife Rose Marie Louise Bernadette Lagasse Moreau is beside him.

Rose Lagasse

Rose Marie Louise Bernadette Lagasse

Eugene and Rose got married on November 4, 1912.

Eugène Moreau et Rose Lagacé

They had three children.
Two daughers…

two little girls

Rose Alice Moreau and Beatrice Cecile Moreau

and an adopted son…

Eugene Moreau

Eugene Moreau

Eugene Moreau became a sailor…

Unknown...Maybe Eugene Moreau taken June 1944 by Cherry & co. Inc. New Bedford

That was the only thing I knew about him.

Rose Alice Moreau and Beatrice Cecile Moreau are on the group picture.

1947 family reunion

Rose Alice is on the left with her husband Teddy Girard. Next to her is her brother Eugene Moreau and his wife Verness Estelle Byrd. Next to Verness is probably Beatrice Cecile’s husband, Louis, but we don’t know his surname.

Every picture tells a story even though it may take years to find out who is on it. Years is what it took for someone related to Theodore (Teddy) Girard to find Our Ancestors.

Hi, I have enjoyed watching your Lagasse search. My great-grandparents are, Leocadie Messier & Edouard Roussell or Rousselle. Their daughter Albina Roussell married Louis Lagasse,
Louis Lagasse 1876–1953
Albina Roussel 1879–1963
Marriage: 1 Jun 1897
New Bedford, Bristol, Massachusetts.
Louis’ parents are: Joseph Lagace 1853–Deceased and Salomee Pollender 1849–1926
Marriage: 4 Oct 1870
Bedford, Stanbridge Twp., Mississquoi City, Quebec
I do have some pictures, not sure how to add them.

Have some pictures, not sure how to add them…?
I know how…

Mae Cox and her son?

I knew I had seen that face before.

mother and son

And the house where Dennis Lagassey III was standing with a pipe in his hand…

Dennis Lagasse III

Mae Cox is seen again here with his husband Harvey Lagasse Senior on the left, her father-in-law Dennis III, and her brother-in-law Victor Lagasse with a cigarette.

Harvey-Mae-Stanislas-Victor

Mae is also here with Harvey and her husband’s parents Amanda and Dennis.

Amanda Ménard - Dennis Lagassey III - Mae Cox and husband Harvey Lagasse

She is seen here also in the middle behind her husband. I can’t identify who are the others in the group.

center Harvey Lagasse with wife Mae Cox

She is seen here once again. Same dress, same necklace, and same house.

Mae Cox? - Amanda Ménard - ?

So who could be the little boy with her?

mother and son

How about her son Harvey Lagasse Junior born December 12, 1923?

Harvey Lagasse Junior

 

Car Story

Sometimes my research will take an unexpected turn on the road to your ancestors.
Jack-boy,Dorthy-girl,Joan-littlegirl.JohnDaly-dad,withLeviCTrentedfarm.jpg
I am no car expert, but I know where to turn to for advice. This car is either a 1935 or 1936 Ford Sedan V-8.

Hi Pierre
Your car is probably a 1935 Ford. Some 1936 models were a copy of the 35. I base myself on the style of the ventilation slots on the side of the hood and on the little grille that we see. Another element: the bottom of the front wing. It was an extremely popular car, especially because of its V-8 engine.

Jacques

Lionel had identified who was who and also had told his son Dennis where the photo was taken.

The farm Levi rented became the Bristol Central High School at 480 Wolcott St Bristol, CT 06010. My dad says they lived there until he was 5 or 6 years old, so that would be 1937 at the latest?

So…
Jack-boy,Dorthy-girl,Joan-littlegirl.JohnDaly-dad,withLeviCTrentedfarm.jpg
That picture was taken either in 1937 or a little earlier.
I had search for more information about the three children to find how old they were. Then something happened on Google when I typed in…

Dorothy Daly Diana Dube

http://www.dellavecchiafh.com/obituaries/Dorothy-Kalvaitis/#!/Obituary
But there was more unexpected turns on the road leading to your ancestors…
On Facebook!


To be continued…

Summer 1939?

Was it really a double marriage in 1930?

Some readers have doubts.

original couple

Collection Lionel Lagasse

I have an opened mind.

We know who these people are. Levi Napoleon Lagasse on the left with his wife Marie-Louise Dubé, and Diana Dubé with her husband John Joseph Daly. There was another photo.

Levi and Marie-Louise

Collection Lionel Lagasse

I guess that’s the wedding picture of Levi Napoleon and Marie-Louise taken August 4th, 1930.

Dating photos is most important when we are revisiting the past, but sometimes you need expert advice on cars.

Jack-boy,Dorthy-girl,Joan-littlegirl.JohnDaly-dad,withLeviCTrentedfarm.jpg

Thanks to my friend Jacques Gagnon who wrote three books on old cars, I got a little closer to the truth about this photo.

Hi Pierre
Your car is probably a 1935 Ford. Some 1936 models were a copy of the 35. I base myself on the style of the ventilation slots on the side of the hood and on the little grille that we see. Another element: the bottom of the front wing. It was an extremely popular car, especially because of its V-8 engine.

Jacques

Jack-boy,Dorthy-girl,Joan-littlegirl.JohnDaly-dad,withLeviCTrentedfarm.jpg

Collection Lionel Lagasse

So if this car is a 1935 or 1936 Ford V-8, then John Daly Junior who looks to be about 8 years-old can’t be born in 1924. He could not be in front of a 1935 or 1936 Ford V-8 because he would be 11 or 12 years-old, Dorothy would be 10 or 11 and little Joan 9 or 10.

I still believe this photo was taken during the summer of 1939, but I can be wrong again. Being wrong since 2007 was been one of my favorite pastimes.

Why might you ask?

Because when you find the answer you feel so good, and you can move on and find more about our ancestors.

 

Summer 1939

It looks like a double marriage isn’t?

original couple

Collection Lionel Lagasse

We know who these people are. Levi Napoleon Lagasse on the left with his new wife Marie-Louise Dubé, and Diana Dubé with her new husband John Joseph Daly.

Marie-Louise and Diane Dubé were Olive’s sister who never married.

OliveDube,at-home-in-Canada.jpg

Collection Lionel Lagasse

Dating photos is important when we are revisiting the past.

Levi Napoleon Lagasse and Marie-Louise Dubé were married on August 4th 1930 in Bristol, Connecticut. So I figure Diana Dubé and John Joseph Daly got married on the same day. Which brings me to dating this photo with John Joseph Daly, Levi Napoleon Lagasse and Diana Dubé and John Joseph Daly’s children, John, Dorothy, and Joan Daly.

Jack-boy,Dorthy-girl,Joan-littlegirl.JohnDaly-dad,withLeviCTrentedfarm.jpg

Collection Lionel Lagasse

John Daly Junior looks to be about 8 years-old, Dorothy about 7 and Joan about 5. I believe this photo would have been taken during the summer of 1939.

If you wonder why this is all important, the reason is very simple. Lionel Lagasse told his son Dennis that many photos are in the possession of the Daly family’s descendants. So if by chance you are reading this, you can add a comment or use the contact form below to leave a message.

Maybe we can revisit the past together.

Post 1050 – Remembering Elusive Dennis (Redux)

Sometimes I get new readers who probably are wondering…

What’s this blog all about? How can someone write so much about ancestors and old pictures?

Sometimes I ask myself the same questions…, and then I revisit what I have written just like this post about my paternal great-grandfather, Elusive Dennis…


Post 1050 – Remembering Elusive Dennis

That’s quite a lot of posts for a blog about genealogy, a blog remembering this man and his descendants.

Dennis Lagasse II

Collection Dennis Lagasse IV

I can only guess his character by the pictures that have been shared by my distant cousins.

Dennis Lagasse II (1842-1927)

Collection Dennis Lagasse IV

I’m sure my great-grandfather was a great family man.

Dennis Lagasse wedding pictureCollection Dennis Lagasse IV

Elusive Dennis

Collection Dennis Lagasse IV

Someone once called him Elusive Dennis because she was looking for who was this man sitting beside her great-grandfather Peter Lagasse.

Pierre Lagasse and Stanislas Lagasse

Peter and his brother Dennis

Dennis Lagasse’s real name was Stanislas Lagacé, son of Stanislas Lagacé and Onésime Cadieux.

This next picture made Stanislas famous, at least on Our Ancestors, as well as his son Dennis Lagassey III, his grandson Harry Lagasse and his great-grandson Gerard Lagasse born June 9, 1916.

 

four generations of Lagasse

Dennis Lagassey III is seen here with his five sons: Levi Napoleon, Harvey, Victor Philippe, Harry, and Joseph.

Dennis Lagasse III and some of his sons

Collection Dennis Lagasse IV

I know all about Dennis Lagassey III and his five sons. I also know all about his daughters: Rose (beside her father), Ida, Bertha, Odna, Gertrude, and in front Antoinette, and Alice.

picture from Dennis 1.1

I know all about his wife Amanda Ménard.

AMANDA MENARD

So what about Elusive Dennis on this group picture?

27 people.

Elusive Dennis

I know where Elusive Dennis is, but with Amanda Ménard on the extreme left in the third row I can’t positively identify anyone else. I have a hunch though we have a bunch of Dubes…Dubés…Dubeys on this group picture.

2 out of 27, that ain’t much!

Post 1050…

That’s the reason I have been posting so much since 2009, and have replied to every comment left on this blog about remembering Elusive Dennis.

Dennis II and Dennis III

I should ease up a bit don’t you think?